In recent years，Discussion on "East Raiders and West" is becoming more and more enthusiastic in the Western academic community。Wolfram Elsner, a professor of economics at the University of Bomme, German University of Economics, in its new book "China and West -Dongsheng West: Conflict from Ancient China to the present" The cause of this pattern，and show that this new pattern will last for many years。The author's study of the history of civilization for more than 5,000 years of civilization for more than 5,000 years of civilization in the book in the book，revival around China、The transformation of the world structure interviewed Elsna。

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Wang Xunna:Many scholars in the Western academic community are discussing the reasons for "East Settlement and West"，Do you have such thinking? Do you think it is under the leadership of the Communist Party of China，What is the reason for the rejuvenation of China?

　　Elsna:China's revival is by no means accidental，Instead of national strength mobilization ability and inevitable results of social stability。China starts from a weak foundation，Gradually get rid of dependence on the West，This progress is amazing。China in history，Once with rich products、Advanced production technology and scientific knowledge is famous in the world，China has reached a new height of civilization after thousands of years later。Those typical countries that depend on the West，Always playing the "Old Industrial Zone" produced in the West，and the character of the raw material library and Western garbage dump，For them，The dependence problem caused by it may never be solved。Although in the history of the past two centuries，China has also experienced the rare suffering of the world，But under the leadership of the Communist Party of China，The Chinese people have conducted a hard struggle，Finally embarked on the new journey of national rejuvenation。This is because the Chinese have the sovereignty of the country、Desire and confidence of territorial integrity and independent development，This is determined by the Chinese people's ability and creativity。

　　Wang Xunna:In your opinion，Western countries led by the United States are too violent and radical for China's rise?

　　Elsna:Until the global financial crisis in 2008，Western countries' response to the rise of China's economy far is far less violent and aggressive as today。At that time, Western countries were also fantasized with "Washington Consensus"，Practice China as a Western expansion workbench and "trash can" through comprehensive "liberalization" to control China。but，China's continuous self -learning and improvement of national strength，Breaking the fantasy of the West，and walking out a unique development road，Successfully realized the economic pursuit and the rise of the country，Therefore, the reaction of Western countries led by the United States has become so violent and radical。

　Wang Xunna:China's strong economic growth momentum is still continuing，and show more toughness。What are the reasons?

　　Elsna:The key to China's achievements is，The Communist Party of China has a strong ruling ability to deal with crisis，The stability and adjustability of Chinese social development，and the many international technology owned by China、The leverage of international standards for social welfare。Since the reform and opening up in 1978，The socialist system with Chinese characteristics has achieved a substantial improvement in productivity、Economic development。This road in China is a new type、The path that does not realize socialism centered on Europe，and gradually increase productivity to the level of advanced capitalist countries，And do not succumb to the ruling system of neo -liberalism。

　　New turning point in the world structure

Wang Xunna:Your new book mentioned a point of view: what world history presents us is a long -term mainland civilization growth cycle，It is a history of rising and declining nations in the world。In your opinion，What specific geographical structure is the world structure?

　　Elsna:In the past 20 or 30 years，The proportion of the topics of the country's "rise" and "decline" or "failure" appear in the literature is getting higher and higher。Whether it is history or anthropology，and in the global historical "World System Theory"，The country has experienced long -term in the long river of history、Large -scale rise and fall process。Various nations and countries on the mainland sector show a specific pattern in the following aspects: physical conditions，that is geographical and climatic conditions; ethnic groups; space and settlement structure; social structure，Economic form and economic structure; social behavior and their daily consciousness; technology，Especially military technology and its related technologies, as well as political power and violence structure (political leadership structure、National administrative form、The importance of the army, etc.)。

This "pattern" is usually systematic，Because they cannot combine freely。The corresponding factors and characteristics will have an interaction in a longer stage through positive feedback and interaction。For example，In the history of China，Farmers have never been slaves or serfs，Also never "product"，It exists as a man。In fact，China has always been easily affected by changes in natural environment。Early China as a big agricultural country，Its large -scale irrigation system ("water conservancy") can be highly developed。China has a relatively small population with a relatively small cultivated land area，This ratio is almost an incomparable in the United States。This also brought early collective consciousness to China、Cooperation culture and technological progress。other，Chinese Confucian philosophy attaches great importance to "overall"、Social balance and social harmony。Based on this，Even in the Han Dynasty, even in the Han Dynasty, the fleet that had far from the Arabian Peninsula and Africa，but did not launch a decent war against the alien。

　　Wang Xunna:What are the reasons do you think the hegemony and decline? What is the new turning point of the world pattern in the 21st century?

　Elsna:Historian Paul Kennedy (Paul Kennedy) used the rise and fall of hegemony between 1500 to 2000，Typical factors in the economy and military will first have a collaborative effect for a long time，Accelerate the formation of hegemony，But with the emergence of hegemony，The same safety cost will show the trend of internal growth，so that each hegemony will eventually be due to "excessive expansion" and exhausting energy，In the end, I had to fail to fail。The new turning point of the 21st century is reflected in: people's perception of "China and the United States -East Setting West"。From the perspective of the decline of the United States，Or from the perspective of the development process of historical and decline，All are the causes and backgrounds of this perception。

　　Wang Xunna:In the 21st century, what are the symptoms of the decline in the United States in the 21st century?

　　Elsna:American economist Daron ACEMOGLU (Daron Acemoglu) blame the country's "failure" on "non -inclusive" or "exclusive" ("squeezing" or exploitability。The symptoms of decline in the United States are mainly manifested in，First，Unstable economic plan，Climate rescue plan cannot be implemented。Second，The parliamentary system full of violence and fear is already at a critical point。Third，Functional disorders of national machines，"Enterprise Rich" represents 1%of the population in the United States，They have 43%financial wealth in the United States，and earn 20%of the GDP every year。Fourth，Militaryism and military activities in the United States outside strong inside。Fifth，There are serious internal problems in American society，But resort to force from countries outside the United States。

　　"New Forms of the Old History"

Wang Xunna:You mentioned in the new book: China returning to the world is the new form of the old historical normal。In your eyes，4089_4102

　　Elsna:China in China、National、The characteristics of society and economy are that it has long -term、Stability and continuity。In the past 5,000 years，China has experienced many dynasties and a historical stage of national rule outside the Han nation，Also experienced division and unity，，formed a "Chinese nation" characterized by multi -ethnic groups，It has a unified language and text，Pay attention to moral concepts。The reason why ancient China became the center of the world is the following historical and cultural characteristics。

First，China is a multi -ethnic country。The concepts of "nation", "ethnic minority" and "Chinese nation" should be explained here。China today，There are some ethnic minority settlements that have provincial autonomous status，Most of them adopt local autonomy form，That is to set up politics for the representatives of ethnic minorities -administrative positions and other specific rights。China's official population policy and national policy are hailed as a model by relevant United Nations agencies。Identity today，It is precisely a multi -ethnic country。Second，Chinese characters are stabilizers and creators recognized by the Chinese nation。Chinese characters as a "iconic" font，It is also "the most complicated formal system created by humans" and "unique features of Chinese culture"。Third，The development of Chinese political philosophy。The development of culture is by no means a monotonous process，​​Confucianism is not always dominant，Its impact on political philosophy of the country and dynasties is not consistent。Fourth，China's scientific and technological progress。The comprehensive development of ancient China in science and technology has been a few centuries earlier than Europe，Invention in iron plow、decimal system、Transportation channels, etc.，China's leading West for more than 2000 years。Fifth，Shipbuilding and navigation technology as the most important field of ancient China，Make China ahead of hundreds of years in other parts of the world。Sixth，​​No colonialism。One phenomenon in the history of international relations in China is，The expedition that Zheng He led by Zheng He in the Ming Dynasty is essentially different from the exploitation expedition of European colonists。

　　Wang Xunna:How can we understand what you call "new form of old historical normal"?

　　Elsna:The United States regards this "new normal" as the so -called "threat to the survival of national security"，From a historical perspective, it is completely wrong。This is also applicable to accusing China of being a big country of "correctionism"，Because China has questioned its international order of "always effective" and "based on rules"，But this kind of accusation cannot block the wheel of history。This accusation is not only ridiculous，Also ridiculous。This is just thinking about the United States from the perspective of power and rule of rule，I believe that there is a so -called "survival struggle" between people，The hidden behind it is actually unknown and fear of decline。

Under the background of such a "new form of the old historical normal"，We see that China has achieved high -quality economic development and social stability today，China's global environment and health system、Development assistance and international infrastructure investment has dominated。

　　China's revival potential

Wang Xunna:In your opinion，How do countries around the world look at China's revival? What are the deep reasons for Western society to report in China?

　　Elsna:We are currently on the third decade of the 21st century，in an increasingly intensified economy、Politics、Media and ideological hybrid war。but，Historical experience tells us，Nothing can stop a nation、Revival of a country。Guide a country、Many factors for a region or a nation have such a characteristic of many factors on the road to revival，that is, they usually affect each other，Its positive results accumulate each other for a long time。The "kick ladder" method of western countries such as the United States has no effect on China，And with the increase in influence of China in Africa and Latin America，The effect played in this way will obviously become smaller and smaller。

Today's Western media is changing its narrative content and method every day，They make rumors that China is in the economy、Technology、Society、Ecological development，It is to "rule the world" for aggressiveness。This is a classic psychological projection case that projected its own crimes and his Bet365 app download future fantasy and intention to "others"。As Singapore scholar Parag Khanna and Singapore diplomat, Kishore Mahbubani explained，China just wants to end long-term humiliation caused by European Anglo-Saxon colonialism and imperialism、Fullly poverty and win respect。The two scholars mentioned above have always tried to explain to Western countries: China was neither in the time (former capitalist era)、It will not take over the world today (post -capitalism) and become a new hegemon，But China is reluctant to succumb to any chaebolo。

　　(The author is a professor at the School of Foreign Languages ​​of Shanghai Institute of Technology)