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Traditional concept、The transformation and change of concept in modern times，It is an important dimension of perspective Chinese -style modernization and related issues。The first "Academic China" International Summit Forum was held，Professor Ma Min, Director of the China Institute of Chinese Modern History, Huazhong Normal University, discussed the historical reasons of Chinese -style modernization in modern transformation in the "public" field in the late Qing city。Around related topics，This reporter interviewed Professor Ma Min。

　　"China Social Sciences": The concept of "public" helps to form a Chinese -style modern discourse system construction，Could you please talk about the connection in detail?

　　Ma Min:"Public" corresponding to "Private" is an important concept of China's tradition，It has continued from ancient times to this day，Its meaning is constantly changing with the times。But in this constant "change"，There is also its "constant"，Settlement、Common features of heredity to this day。In the late Qing Dynasty, China began to enter a sharp era -modern China，Both the "public" and attached the concept of "public" have undergone profound changes in the times。Traditional "Gong" and "Gong" in modern times，At the same time, the evolution of each other，Forms a new type of public domain and public concept，Promoting the early modernization (modernization) process。Following the connotation of the "public" connotation and the changes in extension of the extension explore its modern evolution trajectory，may help sort out from the native "Chinese concept"、Grasp the modern "local" characteristics，Forms a Chinese -style modern Chinese discourse system。

　　"China Social Sciences": In your opinion，Is there a "public" field in ancient China? How is the relationship between "public" and "private" reflected?，How did the previous academic circles met?

　　Ma Min:In ancient China，"Gong" in the physical sense，Most of the monarchs related to "country" or "country"、Noble class，Such as the "Room", "Gongmen", "Gong Court", "Gong Hou", "Gonghou", "Gong Hou"，"Private" that is different from ordinary individuals or families。As a result, it is formed by imperial power、The "public" field composed of the country and its rule，and the "private" field composed of individuals or families and their daily lives。

But the integrated social structural characteristics of "home -country -world" in ancient China，often blurred the boundary between public and private，Individuals are annihilated in "Home"，At the same time, hidden in "Country"，Leading home and country、Public and Private separation，penetration of each other，The border is often blurred。Mr. Fei Xiaotong put forward a classic point of view for this: Chinese society based on family，In fact, it is a self -centered "differential order" society，Social order of ethical relationships with different levels。

From the fuzzy zone of public and private differences，In ancient China, China gradually developed from the country and family (family、Family) and the intermediary "public" field between individuals，Ru Gongtian、Public House、Shan Tang、Yicang、Academy、Yixue、Shan Tang、Guild Hall、Office, etc.。Ming and Qing Dynasties，This kind of "public" field has developed very mature，Various civil society often plays a key role，and correspondingly produced more and more countries without direct jurisdiction，But the local "official affairs" and "tolerance" of private and unable to complete，Rujiao A、Group training、Anti -theft、Bridge、Playing、charity, etc.。American scholar Huang Zongzhi directly calls it "third field"，That is both different from the country，Different from the third space of Bet365 app download private society: folk society of public and private mixed。The characteristics of the three -dimensional space structure between the state and society。This kind of "public" field presented in the face of "third space"，Structure often has adhesive features，It is actually a vast intermediate transition zone between the country and society，It is stuck with the state power，below and connect to the family、Family and Shop、Society of "private" society composed of workshops，Its structural presentation shows that the country and the social dogs are intertwined、The complex pattern of infiltration and integration，It is difficult to draw a completely boundary between them。This is a concept of "Public Sphere" defined by Habamas, which is familiar to the West

　"China Social Sciences": since modern times，great changes in Chinese society。In your opinion，What are the specific performances of this change in the "public" field? Compared with the "public" field of contemporary Western countries，Is this change in modern China?

　　Ma Min:Since the 19th century，Under the role of changes in Chinese society and the dual factors that affect the West，The "public" field of Chinese cities begins a series of changes in modernization。First，It has a significant expansion trend in the field of "public"，Various "public bureaus" and "public office" specializing in public welfare undertakings have been established，The new "gentleman" system is implemented internally。Next，early 20th century，In the local autonomy movement，With the generation of a large number of new types of civil society and autonomous agencies，There are further institutional changes in the traditional "public" field of Chinese city，Several new changes that have not been used to have appeared: Organizational connection in the urban public domain，Start from Shan Tang、Academy、Guild Hall、Office, etc. is more closed、The old traditional social organization transitions to the Chamber of Commerce、Business Group、Education Association、Fire Fire Club、Autonomous Grandpa、New -style civil society organization network composed of the Autonomous Council; a large number of bourgeoisie gentleman merchants enter the urban public domain through the leader of the new community，Forms the "Gentlemen and Business Leadership System" in the public domain。The "modernization" of folk social organizations has also increased.。Although it is nominally "private", "autonomy"，But in essence, these communities often have the common features of "co -organizing government and business" or "official supervision and business office"，It is a state and social compromise、Products of cooperation，Different from the pure "people" nature of modern civil society organizations in the West。This mixed、Transitional features，It has always had a continuous impact on Chinese urban community organizations，and make China's grass -roots social structures very different from Western countries。

In Western Tradition，The dual structure of the country and society is quite clear，Have a clear legal boundary。The concept of public interest and public rationality often comes from the people and society，It aims to restrict state power。The "public domain" in the concept of Habermas is essentially a "overflowing area" from the one end of the society that comes to the country.。In the construction of this concept，"Many people ... gather as the public"，Control "the public domain that is adjusted from top to bottom but confront the public authorities itself"。The confrontation between society and the country，Expansion of citizen rights，is the tone of the Western "public domain"。opposite，Chinese -style modern "public" field，Although you can also observe the friction and battle between folk society and the country，But more is the compromise and cooperation between the two parties，The so -called "governing the government with the people"，It is not a pure social autonomy independent of national power。This trend is particularly obvious in the late Qing Dynasty。In other words，Structure and operation of the public Bet365 app download domain of the late Qing Dynasty，It seems to be closer to Hegel's concept of the attachment to the country's attachment to the country，instead of large orientation or independent orientation。After the founding of the Republic of China，Although the independence of the modern public domain and civil society is enhanced，But basically remains within the framework that coexist with national power。This description，The "public" field in modern China has some similarities in the public domain of the public field of the public domain，But there is always a big difference。

　　"China Social Sciences": concept changes with social changes。How did the modern public concepts develop and develop? From a comparison point of view，What is the difference between its roots and performances from Western public concepts?

　　Ma Min:Change of social organizations with the city's grass -roots level accompanied by the change of public concepts。The so -called publicity begins with the "public" from the ancient pure and national identity，Mixed "public" concept evolution combined with modern "public" and "private"。This process has begun since the late Ming and early Qing Dynasty (such as Wang Fuzhi、Gu Yanwu、Huang Zongxi and others' thoughts)，The new "public welfare" view of "public welfare" and the "public" outlook in the early 20th century。The former was guided by Gu Yanwu and "the private world of the world to become the public"，Clarified selfish desire、Generality of private interest、legitimacy，The latter passed Liang Qichao、Yan Fu et al. Introduce the introduction of Western public concepts，Combining "public" and "group"，Promote ideas such as "public morality", "public heart", "public welfare" and "public theory"，Give the concept of "public" with modern connotation。"Public World", "The World", "Social Welfare", "Public Welfare", "Public Power" and other modern public concepts have become the basic concepts in modern ideological and cultural development，It laid a solid foundation for ideological concepts for the development of modern charities and other social welfare undertakings。

"Public", "Public Welfare" and "Public Theory" and other concepts have also become a community for local elites with gentry and merchants、Repeated emphasis on the basic concept of relying on the autonomy。They call their group "public group"，It is said that his behavior is "the public's public welfare heart" of "transformation of private" and "self -defense"。consistent with the concept of "public welfare"，"Public Theory" (that is, public opinion)、"Public Fun", "Public Morality", "Public Heart", "Ghost", "Ghost", "Public Li", etc.。，The Chamber of Commerce cleverly associates the traditional "public morality" spirit with the "commercial war" of recovering the right of rights，Call for citizens to resist beauty goods。

China's modern public concept is borrowed from the "public interest" view of the "public intention" and "contract" in the West，Therefore，The two have a large degree of similarity。But based on China's national conditions，There are also obvious shadows of "country" in modern Chinese public concepts。This is the consciousness of rescue for the strong group，Second, a modern nation country that is urgent to build or constitutional or republic。So modern public views are inseparable from the modern "national" view，"National" (or "Xinmin" advocated by Liang Qichao) often becomes the representative of the new "public" and "public morality"。Chinese -style "public" field has finally appeared in the transformation to modern "civic society"。But that's just that。

　　"China Social Sciences": Finally, let us return to the theme of the first "Academic China" International Summit Forum，In your opinion，How should we understand the characteristics of Chinese -style modernization from a historical perspective?

　　Ma Min:It is not difficult to see from the evolution of the concept of "public" and "public" in modern Chinese history，Chinese -style modernization has its own historical context and cultural context。Since modern times，China's modern discourse system has been affected by European style and rain，but not a simple transplant for Western concepts and discourse。Only start from China's own history and cultural context，Through detailed exploration source and combing，can we establish a Chinese -style modern discourse system and theoretical system，Really clearly understand what is the place where the modernization of China is different from Western modernization，What are the concepts and concepts growing from the local area，and what are the ways of localization implementation system transformation，So as to return to the country、During the "Western Centralization" process，Go out a modern road that really belongs to China。